My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

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Wdshea
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby Wdshea » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:28 pm

None of the jewelry we produce is thick (thickest parts 2-3mm), IPA has never caused cracking, nor has heat.

heat trials included microwaving in water, mineral oil, and glycerin.
i used a toaster oven at 250*F and other temps as well.
we even tried boiling in TSP solution, and water in a flask on the stove.

i would do UV first, then heat cure. I'd follow the exact UV cure procedure, without heat, and immediately castings improved (to near perfection).

Now, I am open minded, and would love for a process simpler than what I'm doing. What temp, and for what duration do you heat cure?

I'm willing to try heat once more, but i'm skeptical.
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sochin
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby sochin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:36 pm

Christian K. wrote:Especially jewelry with lettering and thin details caused problems in the past!



Make sure you are not asking more of resin than you would wax. What I mean there is that a lot of lettering will not cast in wax yet alone resin.

Often casting failures of small letters have more to do with sprue set up, metal flow damage and other casting factors IMO.

There are many factors to casting after curing your resin that will cause failures. You need to test in a structured manner so that you are not chasing your tail.
Last edited by sochin on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sochin
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby sochin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:40 pm

Wdshea wrote:None of the jewelry we produce is thick (thickest parts 2-3mm), IPA has never caused cracking, nor has heat.

heat trials included microwaving in water, mineral oil, and glycerin.
i used a toaster oven at 250*F and other temps as well.
we even tried boiling in TSP solution, and water in a flask on the stove.

i would do UV first, then heat cure. I'd follow the exact UV cure procedure, without heat, and immediately castings improved (to near perfection).

Now, I am open minded, and would love for a process simpler than what I'm doing. What temp, and for what duration do you heat cure?

I'm willing to try heat once more, but i'm skeptical.


You have a system that works for you with a resin you like as I do. I would just stick to that. My comments are more for those that read general comments stating that heat curing is no good when I have been using it for years.

The next bit is typed with a smile so don`t take it any other way than friendly...but nothing to be skeptical about as many others users heat cure B9 resins and we don`t care if you heat cure or not. Stick with what works for you.......you just have to decide if all those telling you that they are heat curing with success are liars or are you doing something different either with the heat curing or elsewhere in your process that is affecting your results. My guess is the latter.

TAJS unless he has changed his process heat cures B9 resins...his work is exceptional and for all to see. I am not saying that heat cure will work with SolusCast...just that it works with B9 and I have not seen proper tests, including yours..... that rule it out for Soluscast yet.

Thick items have always been the hardest with resins that is why I tested with that design. If you do not cast heavy items you will have an easier time.

The toaster oven I tried for heat curing did not work and is why I asked you before what device. Specifics are important. The toaster oven I used during testing gave more a surface heat IMO and was a a fail for me also.

The deep heat of your furnace will do a better job IMO. I will be interested to see once you apply some deep heat if your IPA process does not cause cracking. You are only going to 250F/120C in a toaster and you do not state for how long.

My exact heat curing process is in this thread. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=842&start=30

I define a proper test as one with hundreds of samples with many controlled variables carried out in a structured manner. This a data base entry for one of our casts back in 2016. That was our 175th recorded test and many things have changed since then....the main thing changed is that we now omit the UV curing recorded and at that time we did not use IPA at all... but it shows what we do to refine our process and to be able to repeat it. The print details are for the Asiga that I used at the time so not related to the Solus. Good luck Wdshea.
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rkundla
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby rkundla » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:25 am

sochin wrote:This a data base entry for one of our casts back in 2016. That was our 175th recorded test and many things have changed since then....


Nice to see the scientific method put into action. We all should be so organized. ;-)
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sochin
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby sochin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:52 am

rkundla wrote:Nice to see the scientific method put into action. We all should be so organized. ;-)



LOL.......Very early in the day I tried to get all the Asiga users to record their data in a standard format to speed up refining the casting of resins......not one took part but plenty found the time then and now to complain about failed casts :) With resins the days of using tap water at any temperature with your investment are gone.
Storen
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby Storen » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:13 pm

sochin wrote:LOL.......Very early in the day I tried to get all the Asiga users to record their data in a standard format to speed up refining the casting of resins......not one took part but plenty found the time then and now to complain about failed casts :) With resins the days of using tap water at any temperature with your investment are gone.


I really like the idea but I see some problems with it:

1. If you don't limit and capture all the variables the test would be useless.

2. I think most users would expect this type of studies to be done by the resin research and manufacturing engineers, not by the final users. It is true that at the moment most brands would offer and sell their resins the same way they would sell potatoes on the farmers market :) I am sure that will change when the market becomes more saturated and competitive.

3. If (for whatever reason) the producers are unwilling or incapable of conducting such studies I think the least they could do is to offer discounted or free resin for users willing to dedicate time participating in this kind of controlled testing.
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sochin
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby sochin » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:48 pm

Hi Storen,
You cannot capture all variables and in many cases variable such as the type of oven each user has will vary.....but this style of testing worked for me. I really don`t care anymore as I have been fine for a year or so now. Just saying it is better than hit and miss when you record no or very few variables.

General comments like "heat curing does not work" and not taking into account, time, temperature, heating device or resin I believe are more disruptive than helpful.

Re your second and third points in particular....my situation is from when the first castable resins for the more affordable machines came out and we were all left to our own. Sure Asiga said their Supercast casts just like wax in Satin cast in their advertising.....all the samples I had prior to buying the machine I could not get to cast. I purchased the Asiga anyway to print items in Plaspink for moulding and wax injection. Many others however believed the marketing and were very disappointed to not be able to direct cast.

For example Asiga claimed that their Supercast resin was not effected by humidity. It was later proved that it was damaged by humidity. I believe discussion of this is still on their forum. Months of wasted time for which I think Asiga gave me another bottle of resin as compensation .......resin that would not cast and still sits here.

Point is that no resin casts like wax yet and results are greatly affected by post curing & the casting process .......so even when you do get the curing right you have to deal with the following variables to name a few :

investment type
investing process
orientation and spacing of items on the tree
flask size
stand time
oven type
internal set up of oven
flask orientation
burnout cycle
casting equipment

So that is just the ones that pop into my head.....many of them especially re investment, oven and casting machine are all out of the resin manufacturers hands. Throw in the case where the printer owner is handing the resins of to a third party to cast and they have no control over the casting process and their chances of success are even less IMO.

This is why I always recommend people that do not cast themselves to let the caster print in the resin that they are set up to cast.

So yes I do agree that manufacturers of resins are responsible to test their product......but there are many things that they cannot control in their tests....this falls back to the owners of the printers and for that I believe they should record variables properly if they want success........and a group effort in a structured manner would get better quality answers quicker.

All the best. I am finished on this one........just wanted to suggest that maybe there might be a better way for Soluscast users to find the best method for successful casting than what it appears is currently being done. I hope to read soon of more success with Soluscast.

regards,
sochin
Storen
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby Storen » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:19 pm

sochin wrote:no resin casts like wax yet


I may have found one - Tiger3D Smart-Res - www.romanoff.com/tiger-3d-smart-resin.html

It requires quick UV curing. Usually, 5-15 min is enough. It burns clean with standard wax burnout schedule. Liquifies when heated and casts clean without issues, same as wax. It doesn't require any casting voodoo - boric acid, vacuuming flasks, etc.
However, it is expensive (more than Emerald) and very soft. Most of the time I have to draw in CAD massive supports.

If we could combine the castability of Smart-Res and the detail and rigidity of SoulsCast we would have the perfect DLP resin.
I think Emerald is somewhere in the middle between these two.
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sochin
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby sochin » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:50 pm

Storen wrote:
sochin wrote:no resin casts like wax yet
I may have found one - Tiger3D Smart-Res - http://www.romanoff.com/tiger-3d-smart-resin.html



I am assuming you have not tried it? Try it and let us know. I don`t believe any marketing hype about "casts like wax" writen by the maker. Heard it all before but would love for you to come back and tell me it casts like wax.

Kevvox and Asiga have been on the "Wax like" marketing bandwagon for ages....heck Supercast was supposed to cast just like wax 5 years ago in Satincast.

Check out the poor print definition Novvak got from Asiga`s SuperWax V1 and he is having trouble getting V2 to print. I have already done my share of paying to beta test Asiga resins :( Would rather have root canal.

https://www.asiga.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=635
Storen
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Re: My (failed) castings w/SolusCast

Postby Storen » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:21 pm

sochin wrote:I am assuming you have not tried it?


Why would you assume that?

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